“I swear to Allah and on the Koran not to lie to you,”

Marines lied about attack, driver says

Hmmm.  I just don’t know who to believe.  American Marines are so, so, bloodthirsty, the brutes, and besides, they are loyal to that horrible man, Bush, so it is my duty as a peace-loving opponent of warmongers and a multiculturalist to believe Haji Liwani Qumandan over Staff Sergeant Mohamed Sheik, USMC.

Indigs lie.

This is a brutal truth that cannot be spoken by those who must build rapport with them. They must maintain the polite fiction that the “eye witness testimony” of such people is worthy of consideration.

Shame cultures have an entirely different understanding of truth than Guilt cultures.

Dr. Sanity sez:

There can be no compromise with their concept of “honor”, for any compromise brings “shame”. Thus, in order to maintain honor, lying and any other kind of deceit is completely acceptable–even encouraged. Multiply this times ten when dealing with the malignant narcissistic leader of the culture or nation.

This reality is hard to grasp for the western mind which places a higher value on truth and honesty. Thus, western diplomats seem incredibly naiive and laughable to both Asian and Arab minds because they believe in the sanctity of agreement, treaties, and the like. The idea that deliberate deceit or lying as a political strategy is considered acceptable–even honorable –in some places of the world doesn’t seem to occur to them.

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5 Comments

Filed under The Forgotten War

5 responses to ““I swear to Allah and on the Koran not to lie to you,”

  1. suek

    When I first learned about the concept of taqiyyah, I was floored. For me, it was a turning point. How can you have any kind of a relationship with someone who considers it a virtue to lie in certain circumstances? So he swears on the koran…does the koran prohibit lying? No..in fact it tells muslims that if it furthers the cause of islam, they _should_ lie. I don’t know how to deal with a culture like that – the only way they can be trusted is if you have some kind of sword over their head. No wonder they kidnap people and hold them for ransom.
    Can they really be muslims and still swear loyalty to America? In other words, can they be both American and muslim?

    I’m still working on that one.

  2. Some of them are lousy poker players, so if you get to know them you can tell when they don’t really believe what they are saying. You have to get to know them pretty well and learn to interpret their body language before you can begin to trust what they tell you.

    But, until you get to know them, you have to pretend you trust them, and in return they will pretend that they wouldn’t slit your throat if they thought they could get away with it.

    There are Muslims in the US Armed Forces who have sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Can we trust them not to betray us?

    I think we pretty much have to. That’s a risk we take being Good Guys.

  3. Machiavelli is often read, but never understood, by Westerners.

    For me, it was a turning point. How can you have any kind of a relationship with someone who considers it a virtue to lie in certain circumstances?

    So long as you are winning, those situations will never come up. The problem is winning.

    No wonder they kidnap people and hold them for ransom.

    Blood loyalty is more important than loyalty to some abstract concept of freedom to them. Which is why ransom works better than promises and agreements on paper.

    Can they really be muslims and still swear loyalty to America? In other words, can they be both American and muslim?

    Depending upon what faction of Islam they believe in, it modifies their world views. A lot of Muslims get away from Arabia precisely because they don’t believe as most other Muslims do. Such side factions such as Sufism, which came from the Sunni branch, is a good example of what the Protestants would look like if they were fighting against the Islamic Church, rather than the Catholic Church.

  4. Machiavelli was a Westerner.

  5. Machiavelli was from a different century entirely. That’s hardly the West as we know it.